In continue for the previous post, and taking this post as a reference, this time the question is simple:
We all know that when a girl is rapped that she's a victim, we all agree on this and I am sure than about 80%-90% of the population actually agree on this, but the question, how many people do you think will accept the following:
- Marry the rapped girl (or letting their son marry her) and at the same time all the people around them know this fact (someone may marry a rapped girl as long as no one know this fact).
- Accept her as a best friend for their daughter (again while all the people around them know that she's rapped).
- Accept their daughter to bring her to the home normally.
- Don't look into her as someone who "did sex before" and look into her as normal as them?
- Finally, looking into her as a completely normal girl which doesn't have any difference than their virgin daughter or sister?
For me, I see that most of the population won't allow any of the above, so if anyone saw any case which is not like this, please let me know, because all the cases I knew about won't accept any of the above.
UPDATE: If you don't believe that this is true, and Egyptians will treat her well, then can you tell me why only 5%-10% of the rapped girls and rapped girls family actually report the rapping?(From ministry of interior reports and some un-official reports and organizations).
Because if people are treating them well, then why they don't report it?
Why they feel it's shame and they shouldn't report it?!
16 comments:
No, you are wrong. I guess you mean Arab world not western or other nation or a good muslim men will accept her as a wife or any good muslim family will accept her in their family. If she is a decent person, good behaviour and people know her background and she was a victim of raped, I personally would welcome her in my family. But if she was trash or bad reputation then I would stay away from her. Nobody deserves to be raped. Allah swt give us the halal and haram and why go for the haram and when there is halal and why destroy her life and Allah swt forbid that this could happen to your sisters or anybody sisters. This is a crime and in Egypt there have been so many raped cases and sex harassment. The police is too busy watching and protecting over Mubarak family and his government and completely ignored the safety of egyptian people!
Did you read the reference story?
Did you look around you for every rapped girl and see how people are treating her?
Did you look into the official numbers of the ministry of interior and many other un-official reports which are saying that only 5%-10% from the rapped girls are reporting this?
Why it's only 5%-10% if the people are fair like what you're saying?!!!
Excuse me, but Egyptians sucks in this issue!
Well .. I think it's all FAKE. This whole society has become fake (or has always been and I just started to notice it)
What on earth is wrong with a rapped girl. I totally think that people are just obsessed with virginity and see the female body as the symbol of their honor .. when they don't necessarily have any.
Can you tell me what happens if a man enages in a physical relationship outside the marriage context? Believe me he might even get praised for it ~~~ !!!
In fact, I didn't practice a real case of that in my life. But I now that our society behave in that manner. But, Meshref, this is not related to Egypt specifically. Also I don't like to match ourselves in social points with the west, because they are not the good example for that. Simply they accept illegal sex relations, so how do you think the way they will behave in such raped case?
We have our original rules, that most of Muslims in Middle East denies. Allah said: "و لا تزر وازرة وزر أخرى", "no one is taken by the mistake of other" (meaning translation by me). If you apply this rule as a real Muslim, you have the answer. Personally, if I get engaged, and knew that this happens with her, of course I have to ensure that it was an accident, it's my right. But without affecting her feelings. If so, nothing changes. I chose her as she is a good girl. If such accident happens to her, it's not her mistake.
For the main point of discussion, my great love: Egypt, It's not the matter of Egypt, or being Egyptian. It's the bad application of Islamic rules in our life. This bad application is the reason of our retardation. So it's the point to start from.
Let me ask you one question, why we consider Egypt is better than US as example?!
It's only because of manners because they are better than us in everything else.
Now when I find that these manners became better here than USA, then I should say with confidence that we became so bad, want examples?
1- The raped girl got every known attention here, including classes, pyscho-analysis, community help, etc.
In Egypt not only she doesn't take any help, but also everyone is treating her very badly, and you begin to hear comments like "if she didn't wear those clothes she wouldn't have been raped" which means that in Egypt people now are just animals and every girl should either walk with a gun or not to walk at all, because at the end it's always her fault!!
2- I didn't ever hear about the massive sexual harrasment in US like those happened in Egypt (and happening every year, just go to Roxy in the fest and see).
3- When someone is hit and bleeding on the street, in Egypt is becomes that no one is doing anything for him now because they don't wanna be in troubles, but here at least someone will pick up the phone and call 911 for him.
4- In the city, how many of your neighbours you know well and say hi to them every year?
Here everyone seeing me even in the supermarket is saying hi, and how is your day, etc.
Wanna more examples?
I don't know why you are discriminating your home country, Egypt. Not referring to the conspiracy theory of course.
I confess that there are now many bad social habits and behaviors in our eastern society. But, again, I refer all of them to bad application of original Islamic rules in our teal life. But after all, it's still better than it in US.
1. You are concentrating on raped cases. And I said and say that they are not treated well here. Good people will consider them as virgin girls. But tell me, what is the percentage of virgin girls that are older than 18 years old in the US? Overall, Egypt is better in that point. The social system in the US is a failed system. Someone's wife may go to the bed with his friend, and no problem for him. She is free. What a society? These rules destroy the building unit of the society, family. So Egypt wins.
2. For your second point, I confess that is bad point here and need to be treated.
3. Third point. It's not general case in Egypt not to help others. Even in Fest events that we all hear about, there was some poeple tried to help, although it was harmful for them. If Cairo as a complex society may, somehow, lose this value, but allover Egypt it is not lost. We can say that its percentage is low.
4. That is true that in complex city society many social relations is harmed. But in allover Egypt, it's not. Even in Cairo. This value is most lost in rich environment. I live in Mansoura, in a village. So this value is not completely lost.
I want to say, although there are disadvantages in our society, it's still better. It's even the best between other Middle East countries. Returning to our original Islamic rules and really applying them in our practical life, we will retrive not only our good society, but also lead all the world, including your US. And, as a Muslim, this day will come, no doubt. But it will not come itself. We have to work hard to achieve that. The solution is to repair bad points in your country and Ummah, to be the leader. Not to be in the side of your enemy, and say criticism overseas.
The question is, what you can do to avoid a bad point in your country, not: Egypt is..., and Egyptians are.... etc.
I want to say that I'm impressed with US civilization, because they are real succeeding people. It's a truth. But I have to remember two points:
1. I have to learn only good values from them, not to melt in them. We will succeed only with our Islamic values, all of them. Or we will be followers forever.
2. US now is an explicit enemy for Islam. It fights Islam in the worldwide, in any point it think that Islam may rise in. So we have to count for that. And I personally treat US as my enemy.
Finally, I wish you not to lose your Egyptian and Islamic identity for the US.
1- What's the relation between raping someone and having her doing sex in her own?!!
Rape is still rape even if the raped girl was not virgin, even if she was a whore!!
2- good.
3- I didn't say than 100% of egyptians are bad, I am saying most of the new generations are bad, and the word "most" means anything between 51%-99%
4- As you see I said "city" I didn't said village, because if we compared villages, people here in villages know every person in the village and know everything about him/her
5- You're always saying if we returned to our islamic rules we'll be good!!!
It's the same for every country on earth, if they are using islamic rules they will be great, but the fact here that we're not using it, so why we're any better than any other country in the whole globe?
The last thing you must differentiate between US as a government and US as a people, if everyone is following your point, then it's OK to consider all muslims as either terrorists or idiots (giving that our governments are idiots and our "who say islamic leaders as Ebn Laden" are terrorists)
vFirst, my main objective of all I said is: we have to do and work to overcome our bad points. Now, we as a nation is not the best or even better, because we are in the bottom of civilization queue in the modern age. But we are asked to work to be better, not to just accuse our country or nation. Your words seem to accuse Egypt as Egypt. For rapping, it's not the general case here, virgin or not. It's a specail case any way. Not spread anywhere at any time. So, still our social structure is better. I insist on social, not overall behavior.
For US. The US government is the voice of US poeple. It's the result of democratic elections. That's not the case of our 26 years old government which 95% of Egyptians wish to remove.
Do you think that Ossama Bin Laden is the reason for a war like war on Iraq. US attacked Afgamistan in result of 9/11 attacks. Let it be its right, say. What about Iraq? Occupation, killing, illegal existance. Does US has the right to modify or decide who to govern a country. It's not Bin Laden or terrorism. What about Somalia. When an Islamic movement take the lead, and stopped civil war there. US makes some attcks there and supported Ithiopia to stop them. Is Somalia a terror threat for the US. What about Palestine? Supporting Israel for its killings on our brothers and sisters in Palestine. When any decicion is taken against Israel in Security Council, Vito is ready. Penalties is ready for any country that oppose Security Council decisions. But Israel which always oppose that is protected. What you can call that?
US is a real enemy. It explcitly fights Islam. And I cannot say that US people are different from their government. Those who oppose American wars are few. I have to treat an American individual as his ideas and doings of course. But as an overall verdict, US is our enemy.
1- I am talking on Egypt as Egyptian not Egypt.
2- It seems you know nothing about US and how election works, everything here is planned, capitals control everything, it's not much of an open system as you think, I recommend you to read more about politics to know more about this.
3- Iraq occupation was all about gas and having a stratigic point in this location, so as you see it's all about capital control, return back to the previous point.
4- About Israel this is again a great point on how capital control decision making in US, when most of large orgnizations CEOs and founders are jews who support Israel.
5- Did you deal with an american before?
If no, then you don't have any right to say that people around the whole world are wrong to think about all muslims as terrorists, because you're giving an opinion about some people you never dealt with before, and you violated what you mentioned before:
"لا تزر وازرة وزر أخرى" which seems that you don't believe in it by any mean
I advice you to read more about politics and world's capitalism before you jump into conclusions on stuff you don't hold enough info about.
1. Tell me How do American people in general think about Israel and Palestine?
2. My info about US's election system may be limited, not null. But do you want to say the election system of American government does not reflect people's wants? I don't think so.
3. I apply "و لا تزر وازرة وزر أخرى". As I said I have to treat an individual as his thoughts and behaviors. But there is an overall idea of a something. Not all Americans support US's wars, but their percentage is small. So I have a total verdict. On the other hand, not all Muslims (one billion and more) are terrorists and are bombing themselves to destroy the west. Very tiny can be treated as terrists. So the west has the wrong verdict not me.
4. Do you wait me to have US as a friend like our governments, while it wage a huge war in more than one direction, all are Muslims. They kill women and children with cold blood. It's nothing compared with so called terrorist groups.
Security is lost in Iraq than with Saddam. And as said, fire of Saddam is better than so called heaven of US, even if I oppose past Iraqi system.
Tell me how can I think about it?
1- Their idea is what media tells them, what do we muslim do in media? nothing.
2- Please don't think so about something you don't know, just read more!!
3- From where you know that only small percentage is against thw war? do you have numbers? if yes show me! and the west is thinking on the same way as you, they just see media and see alot of people talking about "7ad el reda" and "el gehad", etc, and since they don't know what is this, all muslims become terrorists, if you're thinking in the same way, then don't blame them!!!
4- What US do you mean? if you again want to put government and people on the same group, then I must treat you as Hosni Mobarak and our police, so in this case you'll be heartless, dummy, etc, do you wanna me to compare you with him? and you know what? most Egyptians I dealt with are always saying "Eli ne3rafo a7san min eli mane3rafosh" and in the last election most of them were accepting him as a prisedent!!
What I think about it is just you need to read more, if all your information is coming from media and newspapers then you're doing the same like normal people in US and west who get their information about Islam and Palistine from media, and so you're both like each others, no one is better than the other!!!
In addition to the previous comment, see this, it may give you some insights about what you're missing and it may be a reason for you to read more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
Well, it's a so funny video. :)
If it's true, it means that the most stupid people in the world are leading it.
For media: I take my news about US doings from Al Jazeera (that I trust). Also, I'm here, I'm near, and know what happens around me. So no one spread lies about what the US does here. It's true.
According to the YouTube video you posted, they are very isolated from the outside world, and I have an idea about that. I know that most of their info about us are lies, but I'm already fought by their government, and that is the fact. And, again, I tell you that our government is not our choice, but their one is their choice. If not, what is the democracy of America? Tell me. If so, give me trusted sources that prove that.
According to the polls in this link: http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm, right now at least half of them or tiny less support American behaviors in our countries.
Finally to say: I'm attcked, not attacking. So when talking about the United States of America, it's my enemy. That is the priority now. When treating an individual, it's according to his thoughts and beings. I may have an American friend, but for the US, I can't.
I think that this is fair.
It's also a must for the Americans to know more about us, more than that for me, because they are doing, they are attacking, they are killing.
Again you proved that when they think about us as terrorists then they are really right
You took you information from AlJazeera that you trust, and they do the same with CNN
And please know the difference between democracy as a term and moving people to the area you want without making them feel that you control them, you know hetler? You know abdel naser? It's the same, if you want more information about this issue, you can easily find it, nothing come the easy way, you want knowledge then make some effort to get it!
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